Toastmasters International is the largest public speaking organization in the world with over 250,000 members. I love Toastmasters and have been an active member since 1996. I co-founded the Bill Gove Toastmasters Club in Florida, and I’ve keynoted their regional and international events for free to show my support. The problem is there’s a myth being perpetuated on the internet that Toastmasters is a training ground for professional speaking. Watch this post to avoid listening to the wrong people about the professional speaking business. Steve Siebold
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Hi Steve,
I love your blog and everything you tell here. Moreover I am planning to attend your workshop in London this September.
One think I wish for your video is please check the level of the audio input while recording. The last few videos are recoreded with overload.
Thank you and see you soon!
Mykola Latansky
Kyiv, Ukriane
It’s disingenuous to claim you support it and at the same time assert that it never produces professional speakers. Honestly, don’t tarnish Toastmasters good name because you want to use it as an avenue to sell your services!
Bill,
It’s not disingenuous to state the fact that a basic course in public speaking is not designed to nor capable of producing a professional level speaker. I support my former high school tennis coaches, but they were incapable of taking me to the pros. That took much more advanced training. Toastmasters International makes no claim of being a training ground for professional speakers. It’s some of the members (who have no idea what they’re talking about) advising people on how to become a professional speaker when they’ve never delivered a fee paid speech. Toastmasters does exactly what it say’s it will do for people, and thats why I love and support it. Thats why I’ve recommended it to tens of thousands of people around the world. It helps people overcome fear and learn basic speaking skills. As a 7-figure a year professional speaker, I can tell you that companies don’t pay $15,000 per hour for basic speaking skills. When they pay that kind of money they expect to hear a polished professional.
Steve your words ring out loud and clear and as a toastmaster myself (Galway Ireland)and a pro speaker I find your message timely and correct. Toastmasters clubs will give you a speaking area and a small audience in which to practice and hone what skills you may have. But they do not have a credible teaching programm. what a great idea it would be for a pro speaker to run a series of workshops for budding pro speakers just like your famous ‘Bill Gove speech workshops
as a graduate of the BGW you taught me to turn a performance into a conversation. To create a perfect speech and then wreck it. Yes your pro training has helped me become a far better taostmaster speaker, but the same can not be said of the toastmasters club. In fact there a cetain guidlines in Toasmaster which in my opinion hold a speaker beack. (Having to worry about ‘Umms and Ahhs etc )So I agree with your wise words. Toastmasters will help you develop your speaking skills but in the world of the pro speaker the bar has been raised out of sight. thanks again mate and hope to see you soon cheers John
In general, Toastmasters is NOT a training ground for professional speakers – however, professional speakers can definitely emerge after being from Toastmasters. It’s a good place to practice and if one discovers the desire to become professional, then the person has to move on for professional training.
Hi Steve,
Great post! As a Toastmaster for nearly 20 years, I listened with interest. As always, your ideas are pragmatic and provocative.
Toastmasters Int’l publishes an Advanced Communication Series manual titled “The Professional Speaker.” The manual “…offers guidance in preparing and presenting a keynote address, an entertaining speech, a sales training speech, a seminar and a motivational speech.” Good, yet, basic information. Advance manuals like “The Professional Speaker” offer a glimpse of possibilities of becoming a paid platform performer, not a pathway to life changing revenue production as a professional speaker.
I can personally testify to your love of Toastmasters. Your commitment and “give back” to the organization and its members is extraordinary and easy to document. I also know first hand that you’ve studied the Toastmaster program, given manual speeches, and evaluated other speakers based on specific objectives set out by Toastmasters Int’l. You’ve done your homework.
So here’s what I take from your post: YOU CANNOT LEARN FROM THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW.
If you want to learn basic public speaking, speech evaluation, and leadership skills, Toastmasters offers tremendous resources for personal development. If you want to learn what it takes to be a six or seven figure professional speaker, invest in the Bill Gove Speech Workshop.
As a graduate of the Bill Gove Speech Workshop, I remember well Steve’s comments about sounding too perfect. My Toastmasters training created that, and now I know a better way, the professional way to speak. My local Toastmasters club is looking for a guest speaker to address our community with the idea of growing membership- someone with Toastmasters exoerience who has gained some celebrity. Any suggestions?
Hi Steve,
You are absolutely correct.Toastmasters is a great place to learn to be a public speaker, but you’ll never learn to be a professional speaker at Toastmasters. I too belong to the Bill Gove Toastmasters Club in Boynton Beach.The club is great and the members are friends. Fabulous people. That is one of the biggest dangers.The members are for the most part all amateurs with very few exceptions. What you end up with is amateurs critiquing other amateurs as a rule. Before long you will be asking yourself, what’s wrong with this picture?
All I can say is that you can enjoy Toastmasters on a very basic level, but if you want to be a professional, learn from a professional.
I enjoy Toastmasters – they are the best starting point for anyone who needs to learn both leadership and communication.
I agree that they are not really designed to produce the few that are going professional, but rather they help the masses who need to get started with the basics of competent communication.
I appreciate your post Steve.
JM
I agree with you Steve and would not have signed up for the upcoming SF Bill Gove Speech Workshop if I didn’t think everything you’re saying is true. Looking forward to meeting you in person.
Hello Steve,
I joined Toastmasters in November, 1980, and have found the program to be of value. But far more important, the venue is an excellent way to get in front of people to practice; and I have received excellent (and other) suggestions.
But Toastmasters is not on my resume for exactly the reasons you suggest.
Thank you,
Hugh Curley
I appreciate your honesty. While I love the folks in my Toastmaster club 8709 – district 18 etc., I don’t see many making money at it, which is my goal. I am encouraged that your comments also addressed NSA, which many have told is the next step. Thanks.
Hi Steve.
Spot on. Do not follow people who does not produce results. I just joined the blog and it is filled with great information.
Steve,
I agree with you.
Toastmasters is a great starting place for any speaker. The beginner’s manual is great for learning the basics of speech. But a far cry from becoming Professional.
I love Toastmasters. I found my passion for Public Speaking at Toastmasters. My training did not end there. I continued my studies outside of Toastmasters and because of the advanced training…I have given over 1,500 presentations, have my own brand, The Sicilian Mentor, and I enjoy making a great living at what I LOVE to do.
Thank you for taking a stand and putting the word out there.
Ciao,
Maurice
All I want to say is Thank you!! for this perspective on Toastmasters – I am starting out in a business in which I know I will not succeed without doing the hard work required to become a top notch speaker. I am a member of my neighborhood Toastmasters Club and after 6 months of attendance, I began to perceive that in order to achieve my highest goals, and I mean, really achieve them – I had to find a tougher and more demanding program of study – and somehow I found FreeSpeakingCourse.com…someone that tells it like it is as well as presents a vision of the speaking world from the top of the mountain – climbing Mt. Everest is not easy! I am not going to stop attending my Toastmasters group – yet I really needed a ‘voice’ that speaks in unison with my own when it comes to my perspectives about what I could realistically gain from studying public speaking through Toastmasters alone.
Everyone’s comments that Toastmasters isn’t really a springboard for professional speakers are interesting, and confirm my thoughts to get more training. I still feel I need more platform training, after 10 years in TM, and an intense Dale Carnegie course a few years ago in anticipation of launching my business.
It seemed that the Bill Gove workshop is a general suggestion among those of you who responded in this regard. I have been intriqued by it since 2006 and am still tempted. Please feel free to share more specifics about what it contributed to your confidence, style and skill.
Denise Fowble, The Tailored Speaker
Denise-
You MUST do it!
Not only will taking the course give you credibility in the market,
it will trememdously enhance your own self confidence.
Steve & Dawn are the best at bringing out your best.
Mary Ellen Lapp
Many pros recommend Toastmasters as a way to build confidence and gain the basics and learn to take feedback, However the purpose of a Toastmaster club is to create a positive atmosphere for you to learn and grow – this mission is stated in the front of every manual. It never suggests the system is to develop paid speakers.
Toastmasters has lots of credibility and the program does what it is set out to do – and has done it for 79 years. I laughed when people wrote here that they would not have it on their resume. I would have it on my resume, as they are completely credible and effective in their mission.
Thank you A. Parker! – I feel exactly the same way – But you said it much better!
I am planning on attending the Gove training someday so was a little surprised with this whole thread topic – I am not interested in Toastmaster bashing!
Special thanks to Mary Ellen for your encouragement to pursue the Gove training. In the meantime, I will continue to enjoy Toastmasters!
Toastmasters is a wonderful platform to build confidence and skill. It’s exciting to hear of other folks who want to make speaking a career and recognize the need for more professional training to do so.
I am joining a Toastmasters group within the next few weeks and I hope it gets me started in the right direction. As of now, that’s what I expect. Just getting comfortable and learning some basic techniques. I really believe Steve when he says it’s not enough and tha 90% or more of Toastmasters member make less than $75,000 doing public speaking. Many of them I believe have their own jobs and careers not in the public-speaking field.
Thanks for your free website freespeakingcourse.. not many people offer anything of value for free these days.
As for the Bill Gove work-shop I can honestly say I can’t afford the conference for $4k. I have to make some money before i buy the $1k set of DVDs…. and i hope they come to Toronto!!
Good for you Samuel! TM can help you refine your speaking and leadership skills, but you are right that most members work full time jobs. Like most volunteer organizations, it relies on volunteers above the club level heavily. I know of a few in my District that have gone on to full time speaking, but not many.
Like you I am constrained by the price of the Gove workshop, but think it is probably a wise investment. I’ve been tempted for years, but have yet to attend. I also found the free speaking workshop very informative.
I’ve never heard anyone claim that you can go from Toastmasters to Pro. I use Toastmasters to practice and learn basic speech structure. I have recently completed two advanced manuals, the Persuasive Speaker and Professional Speaker. I have developed material in the process that I could get paid for later. I am being coached by a professional speaker who started in Toastmasters and has been a top tier speaker for 11 years. He says I have what it takes to go pro. I competed in the semifinals of the world championship of Public speaking for two years which I credit for my rapid growth.
My question for you is this…
Where else can you get the practice and the experience that Toastmasters offers?
I do my homework outside of the Toastmasters material, but I learned most by doing.
You are right Jeff. There is no where else you can get the practice and experience TM offers for the price. I always compare the annual cost of TM ($54) to the tuition for a two day Dale Carnegie course ($2,000) to motivate prospects to join our club.
Congratulations on making it to the semi finals of TI World Championship competition. Very exciting! Perhaps you have met Craig Valentine, a Winner, whom I understand now speaks full time?
I too am a toastmaster, and am puzzled at the defensiveness of some comments.
I interpret Steve’s video this way –
We go to school to learn the basics, college or university to specialise and potentially study for a doctorate.
Toastmasters is a great school and is fantastic for getting started, but for the doctorate level in speaking, we need to make sure that we learn from the people actually doing it at that level.
Makes sense to me.
I’m in TM for 4 years and my friends and family have seen 200% improvement in myself. My only problem is that I cannot have enough time to practice and can’t spend thousand of dollars. Therefore I should not blame the program but myself. If I’m committed to become professional speaker then i can choose the TM pogram. All great speakers like Darren Lacroix , Lance Miller, Ed Tate and you name it are from TM. Basics are very vital and important and practiced over time can bring incredible results. TM Lance miller repeats basic speech manual every year and doing for 20 years. Now go for it!!!
Toastmasters was formed to increase confidence and improve your communication skills. It definitely has done that for me. I have met some incredible people from all walks of life and also enjoyed the competitiveness within the clubs and the International Speech contests that they hold. Toastmasters holds the World champs in Public speaking – Imagine winning that!!!
with that credibility you can go on to make money as a professional speaker too!
imagine having ” World champion Public Speaker on your CV!! I can see where Steve is coming from too, yet i would prefer to have massive credibility first. I didn’t know who Steve or Bill were until two weeks ago. Is there a contest for the Worlds Best Professional speaker?? Toastmasters = get the basics down and then Professional speaking = get paid.
Well, I recently joined Toastmasters three months ago. But after reading this thread, I am considering discontinuing with it. I want to be a paid professional speaker and I thought TM was the way to go. I have been in the military for 26 years. 12 as an officer, so I already have solid leadership skills, and I have a degree in Journalism and have spoken many times before I joined TM. So your thread leads me to wonder what does TM have to offer me that I don’t already have?
Michael,
TM is a good way to overcome fear and learn basic speaking skills. We send people there every day. Getting paid thousands of dollars an hour to speak is a different matter completely. I would recommend taking the Free Speaking Course at http://www.freespeakingcourse.com. That will help you chart your course as a professional speaker.
Steve,
I predate your Toastmasters experience by about a decade and completely agree that traditional Toastmasters clubs are not the best place to learn to become a professional speaker. They ARE, however, an environment in which some people “catch the bug” for wanting to speak professionally. (I’d estimate about 2%- 3% of traditional club members catch the speaking bug and more than half of them either don’t have the inclination to become a speaking entrepreneur and don’t have a message they are passionate about communicating.) Let’s not forget that many of the early NSA members cut their teeth in Toastmasters because it and Dale Carnegie were about the two most prominent places that people could practice speaking.
About 25 years ago in District 30 (Greater Chicago) we founded a club that appears similar to The Bill Gov Club you founded in Florida. It is labeled a Specialty Club and operates differently than traditional TM clubs. For example, to join, each prospective member must audition to the membership and those whose skills underdeveloped are not invited to join. Also, each auditioner must effectively communicate their goals for speaking “professionally.”
We recognize that not all professional speaking is done by people in the speaking business so some of our members are representatives of non-profit organizations, corporate trainers, authors, and entrepreneurs from other fields.
We see ourselves as the middle ground between traditional TM clubs and organizations like NSA. (The local NSA chapter president is a long time club members. We strive to take the best aspects of a Toastmasters environment (supportive and direct feedback in a setting that “doesn’t count,” an opportunity to try out content in a safe environment, reinforcing basic skills) and eliminate the aspects that are less valuable to speaking professionals (ah counters. etc.)
I feel we should encourage Toastmasters in large metro areas to form similar clubs (smaller metro areas would find it difficult to sustain an active membership over the long haul.) Clubs like these could be a great market for workshops like the ones you are marketing.
I would encourage people who read this to check out our web site http://www.windycityspeakers.com
Thanks for your comments, Stan. I’ll check it out.
Steve